This is the hardest post I’ve ever had to write – even harder than my posts where I talk about my many weaknesses, even harder than my posts where I talk about my grief and suffering. It’s hard because I’m sharing from an unpopular perspective and I’m afraid of losing you as friends.
If I do lose you, will you say goodbye in the comments? I hope I don’t lose you though.
And before I start, let me qualify by saying that :
1. I am only sharing my perspective, I’m not trying to convert you.
2. Even though this is about religion and homosexuality, it is not a gay-bashing post – far from it!
3. I like you just the way you are, no matter how you live or what you believe.
When I became a Christian at the age of 25 my life underwent a radical change. The verse in Galatians 5:19-21 was an eye-opener for me. It says,
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the Kingdom of God.”
When I studied the Bible, I had to repent of about 10 out of the 15 sins on that list, and they were not the more mild ones either. And so I did it. I changed my life completely and got baptized. And though my life is far from perfect, far from being free from suffering, I am living how I want to live. I am living in love for others and without any secrets.
When I chose to believe that the Bible is God’s Word, it was really a dramatic change for me. To be honest, it went against my grain to become “a religious person” because it meant I would start facing prejudice for my lifestyle – the fact that I no longer swore or had intimate relations outside of marriage, the fact that I wouldn’t even lie on the phone to say my boss was not in, when in fact he was. And I would be lumped with all the haters, even though that’s not the way I feel. That makes my heart wail.
I just want to be nice! I want to like everyone and have everyone like me! And nothing puts disgust in someone’s features like being religious – oh, especially if you invite them to church!
Because, you see, sometimes I do invite people to church (even a stranger at times). I do it because someone did that for me once and it was just at the point when I was desperately searching. I had been reading the Bible on my own regularly for a year and was praying to find a church. Sometimes people are in the same place as I was and are as grateful as I was to find God.
But when I invite someone, I don’t like or dislike them for their response, and I don’t push. It is their decision as much as it was mine.
Living by the Bible is a radical way to live – so very different from how the world lives. And the people who use it to preach hate cause me to feel ashamed, and to be afraid to “come out” as a person who believes in the God of the Bible.
So all that to preface the issue about being gay. Denying that desire in order to obey the Bible is probably the hardest thing there is to do. I’ve known people who have done it, and have lived happy lives. (Truly! Don’t bite me!) But I also don’t think we should judge people for whether or not they want to deny that desire.
And I especially don’t think we can single out that one issue and ignore all the other things the Bible says, the very things a lot of religious people unfortunately exemplify: hatred, discord, fits of rage. If you’re going to tuck into following the Bible, you must (one must) address your own sins first.
So here are the facts. The Bible says you’re not supposed to live a homosexual life (Romans 1 is the most clear) even if that is your desire. This was written during the period when the Greeks and Romans were very free about sex, no matter which sex and with whom, so we can’t attribute it to just being culturally outdated.
It also says you’re not supposed to live in a host of other lesser-known ways (drunkenness, immorality, hatred, etc) even if that is your desire. You cannot pick and choose, and single out homosexuality as the prevalent sin while you’re doing “everything but” with your boyfriend, or gossiping with the other ladies at church about that divorced woman who just joined the assembly, or cheating on your taxes.
And here’s the clincher. You can cannot dictate another person’s worth based on their choice. God loves people no matter what they choose, and the Bible is very clear about that. He loves you no matter what you choose, even if you’re gossiping away. He loves you. It’s just not how he wants you to live, according to his word.
I don’t really care if you’re my friend and you’ve chosen to live in a way that is different from mine. I love you. I’m going to want my hug from you (if we’re close enough) whether you’re gay or straight or Christian or non-Christian. I’m going to exult in your victories and cry with your defeats. And I’m going to respect your choices.
But I hope to be loved and respected too, even as a practicing Christian. I hope that we will not preach hate, no matter which perspective we come from on this issue.
There is already enough of that in the world as it is.
I love you, Jennie.
I love you too Shari. Thank you.
Well written as always Jennie – x
Thank you dear Abby.
If everyone had your loving viewpoint, the world would be a much better place. You are the true epitome of a Christian. Someone who does not judge, but loves others the way God asked us to. It’s such a simple and lovely equation, yet so few seem up to the task.
I applaud you, my darling friend, for displaying your Godly heart for all to see, in this day and age, when judgements and opinions have become so polarized and full of hate for the other side.
I am a huge supporter of gay rights. I am also a Christian and my religion, too, believes that homosexuality is wrong. But I also believe that some parts of my religion are based on antiquated dogma and manmade law. What I know is that my job here on Earth as a Christian is to spread love, kindness and tolerance to my fellow man. It is not my job to pass judgement or discriminate against others under the guise of the Lord’s name. I also believe that every person on this Earth, no matter their race, creed, sex, or who they choose to love is entitled to the same unalienable rights and it saddens and infuriates me that, in this day and age, those rights are not being upheld as they should.
I have gotten off track. Forgive me, for that. I tend to get a little worked up when it comes to this subject.
I’m sure this post was quite difficult for you to write, to stand up for what you believe in. But you did a marvelous job and your message is beautiful and true—love one another. If we are ever in the same country at the same time, I would be honored to go to church with you, especially if everyone of your faith has the same loving mindset as you.
All my love to you, Lady Jennie. You are a treasure.
Oh Joann – you make me want to cry. Thank you for loving and accepting me. And I’m with you on joining together against discrimination and to spread love in this world. I think on that point there are many of us who desire it, no matter our religious views or other.
Hugs
Basically, you love us all, however we choose to live. Just like God intended.
So we’re good. 🙂 xo
Yes! Yes! Thank you!
Jennie, I applaud you for having the courage to say the truth of what you believe. Your experience and beliefs are different from mine, but I think we can both agree on one fundamental thing: Love one another.
xo
Kristen, thank you for being gracious enough to accept me, even if you don’t accept my view. I definitely agree with you on love one another, and if we have something to agree on, this is the very best.
Thank you for your post. I, too, believe that homosexuality is not part of God’s plan for anyone, but it’s not my place to judge. That’s His role, not mine. The body of Christ likes to hold this sin up as greater as so many others, but God doesn’t make that distinction. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. How could I judge a group of people for their beliefs and choices when I’m just as much a sinner as them? As you say, our role is to just love everyone. I also get sick of the negativity that is sent our way for this belief, but nothing good can come from responding in the same way.
That’s just it, where you said – Christians like to hold that sin up greater than others, but God doesn’t make that distinction. The only reason I said anything at all on such a nerve-wracking, controversial topic (besides wanting to hold out that there are some people who follow the Bible but who don’t hate others) is because I believe that there is no power in a faith that picks apart the Bible and only swallows what’s convenient.
Anyway. Thanks for showing your support (not even necessarily your support for my view, but just your support for not judging, which is the most important of all!) 🙂
Here is what I know (in my heart, bones, soul) for sure:
Although we may not agree on every issue, you bring with your opinions nothing but love and hope for what is best for everyone.
You will always be my friend.
I am very grateful for your friendship – I need it. And I don’t want to surround myself with only people who agree with me.
Thank you for loving me.
Mmmhm.
There’s a reason we love the people we do, Jennie. Why we feel kinship with them right away.
When I read the bible, I only hear this: “Love another.”
I hope you read this important post today, from Vikki Reich of Up Popped A Fox. It’s impossible to not cry.
The neighbors burned her rainbow flag, Jennie.
Beneath a Cloudless Sky: http://uppoppedafox.com/2012/10/beneath-a-cloudless-sky/
I will read it – and no, no, no. I am against things like that – such a lack of love. Jesus is against it too when you see how he defended people all the time against society’s judgement.
I loved what you wrote …..I am also so impressed by your blog friends and their comments.
I know. I have the BEST blog friends!
I suppose that if you can read my profanity strewn rants against Christian school, I can accept your faith with an open heart. I don’t agree, but I am listening.
Your rants against the Christian schools make me laugh. We can be a sad lot, I know.
Thank you for accepting me and loving me Stacey, it means so much to me.
Hi Jennie, thank you for posting this, and for doing it with love. I am a practising Christian too, and I try to live in the right way. I am not gay. I don’t agree with you on this, and I am sad that so much of the church focuses on gay sex. I am also sad that there is so much hating in the church, I have experienced some of it myself. You are brave and good. Your way is not mine, but that doesn’t matter. Thanks again.
Thank you for being gracious with me Jane, even when you don’t agree. I really appreciate your comment. Hugs.
This was so eloquently written Victoria. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
What a great idea Marlisa! You make me feel giddy this morning with the possibilities for love. 🙂
Very well done. Thank you for opening up to us and explaining your take. Beautifully done, and you have such a kind, warm heart. Kudos.
Thank you for your comment and your encouragement.
I’ll admit that at first I wasn’t sure where you were going in this post, but I love it. You addressed the issue in a way I hadn’t heard before, and it was great. Good job and well said!
I know, KeAnne, such a dangerous topic right? And one where even my own family won’t agree with me, but I hope they love me anyway, even as I love them. I really appreciate your grace and your having seen it through to the end. 🙂
A big hug and a smile from me to you.
Thank you – hugs back!
I appreciate your honesty and believe that everyone has to live their truth. I must admit that I become nervous when someone tells me they are a Christian. I have witnessed so many hateful things done to the GLBT community – my community – in the name of Christianity that I can’t help but feel immediately guarded.
But my sister is a born again Christian and she has always been my greatest advocate. She has loved me, my partner and our children fiercely. She has stood up forbid in the face of bigotry whether it has come from our own family or her church. When I am scared by Christian rhetoric, I think of my sister and maybe now Ibwill think of you too.
Vikki, thank you so much for coming by, even though you knew you would be reading a different viewpoint. Please do remember me when you think of that minority of fundamental Christians who are different. I am your friend.
And I’ll definitely come to get my hug from you in Chicago! 🙂
I love you. It’s about love and acceptance..not hate and judging. I wish more people would understand and take this message to heart. Very brave and beautiful post.
Yes. I’m so relieved that you see that in my post – love and acceptance. I thought of you and Stacey and Galit and Jessica and Alex and Erin (etc) and … I was so afraid to post this.
If I understand you correctly, you love the sinners (all of us) but not the sins. In the case of a homosexual person, you believe that you love that person while also condemning activities that are vital to their sense of self and their personal fulfillment. You believe you can love someone FULLY while simultaneously shunning large aspects of their personhood. That seems impossible to me.
Why is homosexuality a sin? Because your religious text –and therefore, according to you, your god–tells you so? Are there any other reasons why you believe homosexuality (and gossiping, and hatred, and drunkenness among other things) are wrong?
These are serious questions, not rhetorical ones, and I would like to read your answers.
Hi Gwenn. Your comment was challenging and reasonable – thank you for taking me to task, and also for wanting to know in all seriousness how I would respond. Although I am wary of entering into a dialogue that will not end in agreement, I think your request for an answer is more than fair.
You asked if I believed that homosexuality is a sin because a “religious text” told me so, and in short, the answer is yes. While I don’t have any personal experience with homosexuality, I understand that the desire a gay person has for their companion is as natural to them as my desire for my husband is to me.
But one who follows the Bible, doesn’t do so because it feels natural. There are other things that felt natural to me, such as having sexually immoral relationships, but I stopped doing that when I believed that the Bible came from God. A buffet-style religion – where you take what you like and leave the rest – never made sense to me as something coming from an infallible God. If I was going to hold on to the great promises of the Bible, such as the promise of eternal life, I also needed to accept the rest.
But if I may bring up your use of the word “shun” – if I have a lifestyle and belief system that you don’t agree with, would you shun me for it? Would you not return my hello, or eat lunch with me? Or would you just choose not to live the way I do, but still love me?
Because I think it all comes down to that. We don’t all have to agree or believe the same thing in order to love each other.
So the text is “it” for you? You don’t do any further reflecting about why sleeping around and murder and homosexuality might be wrong? You just follow the text without questioning? (Again, serious questions, not rhetorical ones.)
If that is the case, I find your adherence to a text without further thought far more disturbing than your classification of homosexuality as a sin.
And while that doesn’t mean I shun you or your lifestyle, it also doesn’t mean I love you. I may embrace your humanity, but that’s very different from loving you. And that, I suppose, is what you mean with regards to homosexuals: you embrace their humanity even if you cannot love them fully.
In the end, I don’t think that looking at questions of morality in terms of “what feels natural” is useful. After all, murderous types might feel that murdering is natural. But committing murder is very different from one person connecting with another and expressing that connection sexually (whether that’s outside of marriage or homosexually). Murder, even if it feels natural to the person committing the act, is clearly wrong (except in cases of self-defense?).
We all give up certain freedoms to live in a society–freedoms like walking around naked or keeping all of the money we make, among others. And a society’s laws are an always-evolving conversation about the push-and-pull of civic versus individual needs; they are a conversation about the shape of individual freedom within the context of a whole and functioning society. Our laws reflect our morality, and our laws change in response to the other changes that happen (changes in technology, in the number of people in a community as well as in the kinds of people, etc.). And when laws can’t or don’t change, as in your Bible, we enter into very dangerous territory.
Gwenn, this is a conversation I won’t enter into in a written forum because it does so much more harm than good. The number of friends and family members I have that don’t agree with what I believe far outweighs the number of friends and family members I have that do, and I’d rather grapple with the hard stuff with them – the ones who, while not agreeing with me, know me well enough to be sure of whether I’m loving them or simply embracing their humanity. But this discussion in clinical, written terms will be a losing one for everyone involved.
Kind regards.
Using the word “love” liberally can feel nice, but it can also lead to a loss of real meaning. That is why I specify “embracing a person’s humanity,” not because I’m attempting to be clinical.
I feel very passionate about this subject and, more importantly, about not shutting down conversations on this subject as it is only through thoughtful exchanges that any of us grow. Still, I understand that you have felt unsafe in these conversations before and that you do not wish to continue this one. I will leave you alone.
Hi Gwenn, it’s just that I would rather have this conversation face to face with people who, while strongly disagreeing with me, at least know me and know my definition of love – which, by the way, is not a puppies and rainbow feeling, but an active “in your life” sort of love.
On a different note (and not to try and buy your affection), my husband, who comes from a family of painters, loves your paintings.
It’s so, so sad to me that you were nervous about making a post that is of nothing but love. I’m not sure how we’ve gotten to a point where expressing an ABSENCE of hate and judgmentalism can potentially open the door to nastiness and repercussions.
I wonder if things are different in France. I hope they are.
Thank you Kristen – I’m grateful for your kind words. In France they might have the same issues with homosexuality, but it won’t be about religion, it will be about something else. The result is the same divide, though.
The fact that our beliefs are different doesn’t make me shy away or not want to be friends. And your beliefs include love for all, which is most important to me.
I’m relieved – I would hate to lose you. Loving one another is very important to me.
I applaud your willingness to approach this topic. I, too share your beliefs ( exactly in the same way!) and you did a wonderful job expressing your love without comprising the biblical mandates. Blessings to you.
And to you. Hugs.
I love you.
And I am right there with you – loving.
Oh thank you Tracie.
So well said. As always.
Tender and gracious. Like Him.
Thank you Maggie. 🙂
This is beautifully honest testimony, and I believe exactly what God expects from us. Truth and Love. Bless you!
Hugs, and thank you. 🙂
Oh, my friend, what an honest and scary post for you to write. It’s like you read my latest post and are giving me permission to still love those that have very different views than I. I know you as a person filled with love… and that is something we need more of.
Oh no – I haven’t read your latest post yet (I’ve been in hiding) 😉 but I will!
I’m not a Christian but I try to lead a life of acceptance and that truly radical christian thought “love thy neighbor as thyself.” If you do that, a whole lotta stuff can’t happen. Like, um, judging or banning or whatever intolerant behavior comes to mind. Christ was a radical and his acceptance of others was, in many respects, one of his most radical acts, wasn’t it? An American philosopher, Bill McKibben has this great essay, which used to be online by itself, in which he talks about how “Christian” gets violently mis-used. Here’s the only link I could find: http://paxonbothhouses.blogspot.com/2012/06/bill-mckibben-christian-paradox-how.html
I applaud your bravery, not just in “outing” yourself as a Christian but in taking the very radical stand of saying that you can love those whose lives and habits and practices may not dovetail neatly with your own. Seems to me that at least in my very limited understanding of what it means to “do what Jesus did” it would be in throwing that very wide net of compassion around the world, rather than getting up on some bully pulpit somewhere and saying “you’re in, you not so much, and you over there with your same-sex galpal, you’re on the short line to hell.” So.
Well said, French Lady, well said.
You are awesome, my liberal friend. Truly. And for someone who is not a Christian, you sure understand Christ pretty well.
I think you handled a volatile topic in a very delicate and beautiful way. While I disagree with your stand, I applaud your courage and for your willingness to not judge. 🙂 It’s obvious from the comments that most everyone got the spirit and love behind your words 🙂
I know Gigi, I was astounded. I didn’t expect such understanding when I am so outnumbered in agreement. I prefer having liberal, open-minded people as friends, but that has its own danger. 😉
I love you. If for nothing else then for being incredibly brave, open, honest, and gracious here with what you had to say and how you responded to comments.
I think that we are all entitled to what we believe and that makes us all unique.
Thanks Jackie – to have as much right to religious freedom as my gay brothers and sisters have the right to live their lives – that’s all I want.
I applaud you for being true to your beliefs in a way that does not alienate others. So many people on tv seem so angry about their beliefs, as they use them as excuses for intolerance. I love that you are not only tolerant, but love regardless!
Thank you Andrea. Oh yes, that anger (sigh). What a complete mess.
Jennie,
I just wanted you to know that I read your words.
I don’t agree with you, but I am listening to you.
(Thank you for your note. Truly. I admire the way you opened the conversation.)
I know dear Galit. I don’t want friends who only agree with me – I really don’t.
Love you.
I took from this post nothing but love, Jennie. We may not have the same beliefs but I could never disagree with the point to love everyone no matter what. There are so many who do not practice what they preach.
We live very near to a church and my husband and I remark weekly on how many leave church only to honk and yell at traffic moments after they’ve left a service. That mentality is what I have a difficulty understanding people who live under the veil of religion to justify their actions. Not someone like you who is full of nothing but love and a devotion to your beliefs.
Proud of you for writing something that may not have been easy and love you just as I always have.
Thank you Jessica – I’m very relieved. This (the following paragraph) is something I just wrote to a mutual friend that I wished I had expressed better in the post itself:
I think something that I didn’t express well is that the point is not about whether I’m right or gay people are right regarding salvation. The point is about tolerance towards gay people and tolerance towards religious beliefs in equal measure. I wouldn’t ask a gay person to move to a liberal city, like NY, just so they can be accepted, but I don’t want anyone to ask me to leave my friends (blogging, as well as IRL) and go someplace conservative just so I can be accepted. I like liberals better anyway.
Each person has to follow what they believe for eternal life, but this issue is not about that – it’s about society and tolerance going both ways.
I love you as a person but I strongly disagree with your stance on the Bible (i read the passage in roman as one against lust) and our shared religion and particularly the idea that posting it here is standing up about some sort of reverse discrimination. I see gay children crying and commiting suicide. I see fundamentalist Christian writing about (supposed) specks in other people’s eyes when their are logs in their own. I guess I just don’t understand why you wrote this post?
I wouldn’t stop reading or being your friend for this though. I don’t think we are supposed to remove ourselves from those who disagree. How would we ever grow? I would miss so much as no one is one idea or thought or post or stance or action.
Ah, okay. I wrote it because I want there to be religious tolerance too, not just tolerance for homosexuality. I have always grown up in a very tolerant, liberal society and what I often see is that it is popular to label Christians who believe the Bible in its entirety as being ignorant and dangerous. But if the whole idea has to do with what it takes to have eternal life, and not what it takes to have a correct society, than this issue is not really different from whether you’re a practicing Muslim or Jew or Buddhist, or something else entirely, as opposed to a Christian.
My best friend (or at least one of my very best friends) is Muslim. We agree to disagree on what God requires in order to have eternal life, but I still make sure to have halal food when she comes over – see what I mean? We talk about the issue with respect, and then get on with our lives, our kids, our jokes. In the same way, even if I disagree (with the majority of the world) 😉 that you don’t need to follow the Bible to have eternal life, it doesn’t prevent me from entering into their lives (I’m mean, really being in each other’s lives, here, not just talking the talk).
I am not promoting discrimination against gay people, or promoting taking away their rights, I am promoting the freedom to say that I believe the Bible entirely without being labeled. Imagine a world where a fundamental Christian could be arm in arm with a gay person and say without rancor – oh you believe that? Well I believe this. But enough of this talk, let’s go get a pizza.
I think in France there is probably more tolerance for homosexuality than in the US. You might be in the minority there but not here — US polls alone show it’s not the case even if in the community you grew up in the US was more liberal.
I think someday we will all walk arm and arm because there are people like you and I who find common ground while disagreeing and find love and heaven and God in our differences. Pizza sounds fantastic.
I commented on Vikki from Up Popped a Fox’s blog that I don’t remember ever hearing a hateful comment towards a homosexual said in my presence. I never realized it before – I’ve only heard the hatred second-hand or on the news. This means that I have been very, very blessed in my upbringing – family, friends and my current church. But I’ve heard a lot of (not so much hateful as) derogatory comments towards Christians. Perhaps that’s why I wanted to speak out. I think that’s what I want to find – the common ground of our humanity. I appreciate your comments Alex! 🙂
Ps let me édit this comment by qualifying that the vast majority of hate lies with the so-called Christians and not with anyone else and I condemn that behavior.
In addition to reading about your life on this blog, I also know you personally, so I have no doubt that everything you shared in this post comes from love. I don’t agree with you (as my cousin says- I’m so liberal, it’s painful) but I appreciate your sharing on such a volatile topic. I love you and hope to see you again someday so I can give you a hug.
Ah, my painfully liberal friend – you know I delight in your political status updates. 🙂 I’m kind of an odd mix because I am liberal in a lot of ways. I don’t think I would ever veto gay rights or right to abortion because I don’t see those kinds of battles being fought in the New Testament on an institutional level. It’s all on a heart level from what I can see, and an individual choice.
Thanks for trusting me – and I’d love my hug!
“And here’s the clincher. You can cannot dictate another person’s worth based on their choice”
Amen 🙂
My place is not to judge . . . yours . . . theirs . . . or anyone’s beliefs while on this earth. I admire your honesty, and respect your beliefs always. This certainly was not easy to write, my friend. But something that I am sure you needed to release and put out there. I am certainly liberal in my beliefs, but would neve judge someone who feels differently than I. I am all about the love, and how people treat each other. It is certainly not up to me to question the morals or choices of ANYONE on this earth.
I adore you, my friend.
I rarely comment on political/hot topics but I have to say that this is really well written and thoughtfully said. I admire your honesty and viewpoint.
Thank you Ameena. I’m glad to see you back, and that you’re feeling better.
I came to your blog from a link in another blog today. I have been exploring your blog a bit and have had fun. Thank you! I also want to thank you for this post. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (l’Eglise de Jésus Christ des Saints des Derniers Jours), or Mormon. I have experienced prejudice and verbal abuse from people claiming that I am not a Christian. Especially by people who claim to be a follower of Christ themselves. It’s very sad to hear those who claim that they are trying to be like Christ say such the awful things I have heard said to me and others of my faith. I also believe the way you do in regards to homosexuality. I know that as humans we have a great deal to tempt us and try us. That doesn’t mean that God does not have a better plan for us, a plan that will make us even more happy than we would be by ourselves, if we make the choice to follow Him and His son, Jesus Christ. Thank you for a courageous and well written post that mirrors my thoughts exactly. Though I do have to admit that I am a tiny bit envious that you are living in France and speak French. I lived in France for 18 months as a missionary for the LDS church. I LOVE France! I met my Connecticut husband, who was also serving a mission there, in Nancy when I was living in Metz. I have not been as diligent in keeping up my French language abilities, but we have our children in a French Dual Immersion school program here in Utah which is helping me to practice much more than I normally would. 🙂 Thanks again for your post!
Hi Julie, thanks for reading and commenting, and welcome! 🙂 That’s such a blessing that your kids are able to attend a bilingual school – they are probably better off than my own kids who speak English rather “comme-ci, comme-ça.” heh heh